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Marco from Hangar 5
Pterodattilo

Netherlands
891 Posts

Posted - 14/02/2011 :  03:07:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder if LK8000 (especially the FLARM module) should work when a ADS-B unit is placed in between the FLARM and the LK8000 PDA/Smartphone/PNA adding ADS-B data to the flarm NMEA stream.:

TRX-1090 of garrecht for example: http://www.garrecht.com/index.php/de/ads-b/trx-1090

With a simple connection between a transponder and Flarm via this unit, wonderfull things are getting possible..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GokAlQTvn8c

http://www.glidertracking.com/ (translation in the lower righthand corner)

With only a cable between a GPS source and a transponder, you could ebable your transponder to be a ADS-B data transmitter

beside Flarm detection also other traffic that has no flarm but only a transponder (from big airliners to small motor aircraft).

Something to keep an eye on! Transponders are allready mandatory in the Netherlands (not really, but XC flying is impossible without a transponder) so why not taking advantage of this.


Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegcentrum Noordkop, NETHERLANDS

dingetje
Pulcino

Netherlands
31 Posts

Posted - 14/02/2011 :  21:16:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Marco,

ADS-B doesn't add anything to the flarm NMEA stream?
In fact most transponders don't like flarm as ADS-B data source because of the proprietary flarm sentences in the NMEA stream and a filter is needed to get rid of these additional sentences.

The position, height and callsign information is xmitted by the transponder to the mode-S groundstation, you won't get information from other aircrafts in the region. In that sense ADS-B is quite different from flarm which has two-way communication (in a limited range)

quote:
Under ADS-B, a vehicle periodically broadcasts its own state vector and other information without knowing what other vehicles or entities might be receiving it, and without expectation of an acknowledgment or reply.


Basically all you're doing is yelling "I'm here!", "I'm here!", "I'm...."
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Marco from Hangar 5
Pterodattilo

Netherlands
891 Posts

Posted - 15/02/2011 :  09:25:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dingetje

Hi Marco,

ADS-B doesn't add anything to the flarm NMEA stream?
In fact most transponders don't like flarm as ADS-B data source because of the proprietary flarm sentences in the NMEA stream and a filter is needed to get rid of these additional sentences.

The position, height and callsign information is xmitted by the transponder to the mode-S groundstation, you won't get information from other aircrafts in the region. In that sense ADS-B is quite different from flarm which has two-way communication (in a limited range)

quote:
Under ADS-B, a vehicle periodically broadcasts its own state vector and other information without knowing what other vehicles or entities might be receiving it, and without expectation of an acknowledgment or reply.


Basically all you're doing is yelling "I'm here!", "I'm here!", "I'm...."




You are right, and I did not say that..maybe I was not clear.. The trx-1090 is needed to add ADS-B data to the flarm stream, the trx-1090 is a ADS-B receiver/muxer, so beside FLARM info also ADSB info can be presented in your FLARM butterfly display or PDA with LK8000 software this way expanding your "radar" way beyond Flarm reach!.

The TRX-1090 also sends (cleaned) NMEA data to your transponder in 4800 baud.

If you only want to enable the ADS-B capability of your transponder, only a cable is needed between a GPS source (NOT a FLAM) and the transponder, the GPS source must send data in 4800 baud. Colibri or even a simple GPS mouse is sufficient for that.

Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegcentrum Noordkop, NETHERLANDS
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dingetje
Pulcino

Netherlands
31 Posts

Posted - 15/02/2011 :  17:46:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, now I understand your request.
From the manual of the TRX-1090:

quote:

The TRX-1090 outputs collision avoidance data in FLARM® compatible format. So any of the
available compatible FLARM® displays (such as Butterfly Display, V2, V3, V4) can be connected as
well as moving map systems (such as FlyMap L, Moving Terrain, LX8000/9000). Data of ADS-B
targets are provided in the same manner as FLARM® targets in a common data stream.


So I think this will work with LK8000's FLARM display as well, but of course there's only one way to make sure and that is to test it out.

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dingetje
Pulcino

Netherlands
31 Posts

Posted - 15/02/2011 :  17:47:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The TRX-1090 data port specification can be downloaded from
http://www.garrecht.com/index.php/de/support/download/manuals/42-trx-dataport-specification/download
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 15/02/2011 :  18:01:25  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From the specs, this device need further development for a perfect integration.
It can be programmed by LK for baud rate and data, just like a Flarm can do now.
But this is not a real flarm.
The PGAV5 NMEA Sentence is not supported by LK, it is proprietary by Garrecht.
And so is another proprietary sentence.
The PFLAA indeed can send both adsb and flarm data, but I need to understand how.

For sure, we dont have full compatibility with this traffic advisor right now.
I wouldn't declare it as "supported" at all.
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Marco from Hangar 5
Pterodattilo

Netherlands
891 Posts

Posted - 15/02/2011 :  18:34:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

From the specs, this device need further development for a perfect integration.
It can be programmed by LK for baud rate and data, just like a Flarm can do now.
But this is not a real flarm.
The PGAV5 NMEA Sentence is not supported by LK, it is proprietary by Garrecht.
And so is another proprietary sentence.
The PFLAA indeed can send both adsb and flarm data, but I need to understand how.

For sure, we dont have full compatibility with this traffic advisor right now.
I wouldn't declare it as "supported" at all.




Ok, good to know! I do not want to mess up my good working setup right now, by adding this TRX-1090, but certainly something to put on your 'to do' list.. something for next winter i suppose..

BTW, to enable the transponder to send out ADS-B information so the tracking bit at least works, in stead of the expensive TRX-1090 you could also install a K6 team Mux unit, to connect the Flarm with the Garrecht transponder, but then of course you cannot get the extra ADS-B traffic information as the K6 Mux is not an ADS-B receiver.


Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegcentrum Noordkop, NETHERLANDS
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